To All Those Muslims Burning & Protesting That Cartoon

[lpb8733]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Esinoth @ Feb 9 2006, 04:00 PM) [snapback]42089[/snapback][/center]

It kinda of reminds me when i saw a news report in America..when Iraq was first invaded the majority of Americans didnt know where Iraq was and some had never heard of it before
I dont know how some people arent aware of world events and history, for me world news and reading is vital, without it its like being blind

Compared to the rest of the world there is an opinion of Americans, that they are never aware of whats happening outside of american news.

I personally found that when i was there and watching the news..it was totally weird when they didnt mention anything about the rest of the world. I wounder if thats true for most of you :huh:
Its just how can you have an opinion on a culture or plan on taking some form of action against an area of the world when you dont understand its history
[/b]

Not knowing world geography/history falls mainly on the education system, both teachers and parents. The funny part is that while most people in the US didn't know the location of Iraq, I'm willing to bet that most religious/Christian people did, since the middle east has always been a hot bed of activity.

I, too, try to stay aware and up-to-date on world events. With technology and how easily information moves today, everything has the potential to affect you, where ever you may be. Even my little watering-hole of a town has been affected by events from all over, I can give examples if needed.

It feels like a lot of the US population seems to be under the impression that global events aren't worth knowing about, since we are the dominate superpower right now. They assume that whatever happens out there, won't affect us in here. 9-11 was a rude wake-up call for a lot of people.

 

[Hakan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Arano @ Feb 10 2006, 07:46 AM) [snapback]42120[/snapback][/center]

Hardly. The orthodox majority lies around the Balkans, or around the ex-soviet block. In the UK you have catholics, protestants, presbytarians (sp) etc.
[/b]

English are anglikans, they were catholic but if i am not mistaken with Henry the 8th they decided to cut pope's influence.

And ofcourse George Orwell's 1984 is a classic. Big corporations, echelon we r not too far from it.

Politicians mainly makes decissions considering their voting chance thats why I dont like democracy.

That goes back to Monroe Doctrine, U.S stayed away from world politics basicly other than America continent till 1st WW. With league of Nations frustration once again Wilson took a step back so U.S stayed as sleeping giant till 2nd WW. And even 2nd WW wouldnt wake them up if Japans didnt attack them.

Americans do feel in general that they are the world, and mainly they are ignorant. It was very funny for me to find out at 1st hand, they have all those airports which they call World airport but they dont even have an exchange bureau to change euros. I couldnt find a single bank to change euros lol. They simply didnt know what euro is.

 

[Tiveria]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hakan @ Feb 9 2006, 06:09 PM) [snapback]42183[/snapback][/center]

They simply didnt know what euro is.
[/b]

Isn't that a new kinda pizza?

 

[Allanon]

If someone else posted thisalready, sorry, but this is really well put.

"Muslim outrage huh. OK ... let's do a little historical review. Just some lowlights:

-Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.
-A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
-Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage
-Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.
-Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.

Dead children. Dead tourists. Dead teachers. Dead doctors and nurses. Death, destruction and mayhem around the world at the hands of Muslims .. no Muslim outrage ... but publish a cartoon depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban and all hell breaks loose.

Come on, is this really about cartoons? They're rampaging and burning flags. They're looking for Europeans to kidnap. They're threatening innkeepers and generally raising holy Muslim hell not because of any outrage over a cartoon. They're outraged because it is part of the Islamic jihadist culture to be outraged. You don't really need a reason. You just need an excuse. Wandering around, destroying property, murdering children, firing guns into the air and feigning outrage over the slightest perceived insult is to a jihadist what tailgating is to a Steeler's fan.

I know and understand that these bloodthirsty murderers do not represent the majority of the world's Muslims. When, though, do they become outraged? When do they take to the streets to express their outrage at the radicals who are making their religion the object of worldwide hatred and ridicule? Islamic writer Salman Rushdie wrote of these silent Muslims in a New York Times article three years ago. "As their ancient, deeply civilized culture of love, art and philosophical reflection is hijacked by paranoiacs, racists, liars, male supremacists, tyrants, fanatics and violence junkies, why are they not screaming?"

Indeed. Why not?"

 

[Hakan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allanon @ Feb 10 2006, 09:24 AM) [snapback]42195[/snapback][/center]

If someone else posted thisalready, sorry, but this is really well put.

"Muslim outrage huh. OK ... let's do a little historical review. Just some lowlights:

-Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.
-A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
-Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage
-Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.
-Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.

Dead children. Dead tourists. Dead teachers. Dead doctors and nurses. Death, destruction and mayhem around the world at the hands of Muslims .. no Muslim outrage ... but publish a cartoon depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban and all hell breaks loose.

Come on, is this really about cartoons? They're rampaging and burning flags. They're looking for Europeans to kidnap. They're threatening innkeepers and generally raising holy Muslim hell not because of any outrage over a cartoon. They're outraged because it is part of the Islamic jihadist culture to be outraged. You don't really need a reason. You just need an excuse. Wandering around, destroying property, murdering children, firing guns into the air and feigning outrage over the slightest perceived insult is to a jihadist what tailgating is to a Steeler's fan.

I know and understand that these bloodthirsty murderers do not represent the majority of the world's Muslims. When, though, do they become outraged? When do they take to the streets to express their outrage at the radicals who are making their religion the object of worldwide hatred and ridicule? Islamic writer Salman Rushdie wrote of these silent Muslims in a New York Times article three years ago. "As their ancient, deeply civilized culture of love, art and philosophical reflection is hijacked by paranoiacs, racists, liars, male supremacists, tyrants, fanatics and violence junkies, why are they not screaming?"

Indeed. Why not?"
[/b]

The type you display your argument shows u hate muslims, I can count the same for christians. Those acts are carried by terrorists not muslims, if I take yr approach i could say christians nuked Japan, doesnt make any sense eh?

Becoz we are opressed by our countries which is backed by West to control the region is the answer to that charlatan.

 

[Artica]

I was gonna say to Allanon, that he is generalizing Muslims here. Taking those that terrorize with those uneducated ones that are now being manipulated into these riots. Allanon is talking just of those Extremist Arabs. And well, you can't compare them both.

 

[reek]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Artica @ Feb 9 2006, 02:22 PM) [snapback]42034[/snapback][/center]

Same can be done by the country. The concequences of the newspaper affected the countries trading and income. Thus the government can either apologize or make them apologize. [/b]

No, the government has no power over the private newspaper to make them apologize. I don't know the law in Denmark though I assume it's similar to the US Constitution. In the US, it would in fact be illegal for the government to force me to apologize. And if the US is not responsible for my opinion, then an apology on my behalf is completely hollow. Denmark cannot apologize for the cartoonists because Denmark has no culpability whatsoever. It's exactly like Leeloo coming here and saying Reek is a bastard. I might be offended to no end and I might scream and yell and cause havoc, but why should the country of Denmark apologize to me?

There is no law to stop freedom of expression, and in this case they will not stop freedom of expression. The government will only sanction the action of the paper (if they decide to do so). That doesn't mean that they can say whatever they want. But that they have to think twice next time before doing so.[/b]

If a newspaper has to think twice before printing something for fear of government intervention, then there is no freedom of the press. And do you really want government scorning its citizens over a "right" way of thinking? Again, as I said, what if they published a cartoon of a witch on a broom and that offends Wiccans? Should they force their private citizens to apologize for that too? Or just in a situation where there's violence? If so, aren't you then pandering to violence?

I am for Freedom of Speech. [/b]

No, you're not, not in this argument.

But such a term is a falacy, cause as Hakan said, there is no Black and White, it's GRAY.[/b]

Certainly there are gray areas. As we've said in the US there are limitations to freedom of speech, as I'm sure there are in Denmark. But this is not one of those gray areas. It is black and white - in the US, "Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech." It is plain as day in Denmark and the US that the government has no power over the press.

I don't know you and the place you live. But here, we have so many ethnicities (for all those people that live in California, and the south of the US) You have to consider them. We have Japanese, Chinese, Iranies, Iraquis, Saudi Arabs, Mexican, Brazilians, Venezuelan, Argentines, and so on... people from so many countries and to be able to coexist, we have to respect each other.
[/b]

Where I live in fact has the largest Middle Eastern population outside of the Middle East. Unfortunately they are largely separated from the rest of the population (same as other ethnicities). To really respect each other, to really enjoy the multi-culturalism that we should enjoy, we must feel free to talk to each other. We can't be afraid.

As I said earlier I was thinking of going to a Middle Eastern restaurant to discuss this. I didn't get a chance to do so today because I had work done on my apartment, and didn't want any valuables to leave with the contractors, heh. But I've done so in the past, and I can tell you that it's a lot of fun (if you like talking politics) and it's more educational than anything schools can teach you. It's been my experience that those of Middle Eastern heritage here (many of whom are Chaldean, not just Muslims) love to talk politics. They love to educate those who are ignorant of their culture. But you cannot educate someone who is afraid to speak their mind. If someone thinks Arabs = Terrorists, that's definitely offensive, at least to me. If he's afraid to say it, how is he gonig to learn otherwise?

 

[Durryynn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hakan @ Feb 9 2006, 03:41 PM) [snapback]42210[/snapback][/center]

The type you display your argument shows u hate muslims, I can count the same for christians. Those acts are carried by terrorists not muslims, if I take yr approach i could say christians nuked Japan, doesnt make any sense eh?

Becoz we are opressed by our countries which is backed by West to control the region is the answer to that charlatan.
[/b]

Yep Hakan you are 100% right. But it wasn't christians it was Americans so therefore why blame a country for their actions just because of their religion. Its a judgmental statement. its easier for the simple minded to just call a certain ethnic group a "bunch of muslim terrorists" because it all boils down to this; there are terrorist organizations and there are muslim organizations who they worship a certain god or higher being. Which is fine. They were offended and the extreme radical practitioners took action and jumped the gun and the whole community followed in like a herd of sheep.

 

[Artica]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Artica @ Feb 9 2006, 03:47 PM) [snapback]42213[/snapback][/center]

I was gonna say to Allanon, that he is generalizing Muslims here. Taking those that terrorize with those uneducated ones that are now being manipulated into these riots. Allanon is talking just of those Extremist Arabs. And well, you can't compare them both.
[/b]

Sorry to quote myself, but was thinking.
Probably was Arabs who did all those transgretions against others. However, they are not the same bunch. Know what I mean?!

Hakan, are all Arabs Muslims or Islam, or are they smaller variants? Like Christianity, you have so many kinds.

 

[Durryynn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Artica @ Feb 9 2006, 03:55 PM) [snapback]42217[/snapback][/center]

Sorry to quote myself, but was thinking.
Probably was Arabs who did all those transgretions against others. However, they are not the same bunch. Know what I mean?!

Hakan, are all Arabs Muslims or Islam, or are they smaller variants? Like Christianity, you have so many kinds.
[/b]

thats a good question

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allanon @ Feb 9 2006, 03:24 PM) [snapback]42195[/snapback][/center]

If someone else posted thisalready, sorry, but this is really well put.

"Muslim outrage huh. OK ... let's do a little historical review. Just some lowlights:

-Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.
-A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
-Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage
-Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
-Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.
-Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.

Dead children. Dead tourists. Dead teachers. Dead doctors and nurses. Death, destruction and mayhem around the world at the hands of Muslims .. no Muslim outrage ... but publish a cartoon depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban and all hell breaks loose.

Come on, is this really about cartoons? They're rampaging and burning flags. They're looking for Europeans to kidnap. They're threatening innkeepers and generally raising holy Muslim hell not because of any outrage over a cartoon. They're outraged because it is part of the Islamic jihadist culture to be outraged. You don't really need a reason. You just need an excuse. Wandering around, destroying property, murdering children, firing guns into the air and feigning outrage over the slightest perceived insult is to a jihadist what tailgating is to a Steeler's fan.

I know and understand that these bloodthirsty murderers do not represent the majority of the world's Muslims. When, though, do they become outraged? When do they take to the streets to express their outrage at the radicals who are making their religion the object of worldwide hatred and ridicule? Islamic writer Salman Rushdie wrote of these silent Muslims in a New York Times article three years ago. "As their ancient, deeply civilized culture of love, art and philosophical reflection is hijacked by paranoiacs, racists, liars, male supremacists, tyrants, fanatics and violence junkies, why are they not screaming?"

Indeed. Why not?"
[/b]

Now here is what I have to say. Christians have the same amount if not more blood on their hands when we are talking about history here. They may not have had the proper equipment to do what the terrorist groups have done but they ahve made many cultures suffer in great numbers.

 

[Hakan]

There are 3 main sects in Islam.

Sunni; which is divided to 4 sub sects. These can be described as the main branch following Quran and Hadis (Probhets' word and way of doing things) The sub sects have minor differences regarding daily practice and rituels.

Shia; these are followers of the 4th Caliph Ali and his sons Hasan and Husein whom were Grand Children of the probhet. Shia has quite a lot of differences and they dont totally follow Quran. Iran is Shia.

Vahhabi; Mostly S.Arabia and surrounding area, they reject Hadis. They were more arrogant in the past, even some of them claiming arabs were chosen race.

Sunni muslims are the majority and they stay away from terror mostly.

 

[reek]

And as I mentioned, no not all Arabs are Muslim. Chaldeans are Christian, usually from Iraq.

 

[Hakan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 10 2006, 09:51 AM) [snapback]42214[/snapback][/center]

No, the government has no power over the private newspaper to make them apologize. I don't know the law in Denmark though I assume it's similar to the US Constitution. In the US, it would in fact be illegal for the government to force me to apologize. And if the US is not responsible for my opinion, then an apology on my behalf is completely hollow. Denmark cannot apologize for the cartoonists because Denmark has no culpability whatsoever. It's exactly like Leeloo coming here and saying Reek is a bastard. I might be offended to no end and I might scream and yell and cause havoc, but why should the country of Denmark apologize to me?

If a newspaper has to think twice before printing something for fear of government intervention, then there is no freedom of the press. And do you really want government scorning its citizens over a "right" way of thinking? Again, as I said, what if they published a cartoon of a witch on a broom and that offends Wiccans? Should they force their private citizens to apologize for that too? Or just in a situation where there's violence? If so, aren't you then pandering to violence?

No, you're not, not in this argument.

Certainly there are gray areas. As we've said in the US there are limitations to freedom of speech, as I'm sure there are in Denmark. But this is not one of those gray areas. It is black and white - in the US, "Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech." It is plain as day in Denmark and the US that the government has no power over the press.

Where I live in fact has the largest Middle Eastern population outside of the Middle East. Unfortunately they are largely separated from the rest of the population (same as other ethnicities). To really respect each other, to really enjoy the multi-culturalism that we should enjoy, we must feel free to talk to each other. We can't be afraid.

As I said earlier I was thinking of going to a Middle Eastern restaurant to discuss this. I didn't get a chance to do so today because I had work done on my apartment, and didn't want any valuables to leave with the contractors, heh. But I've done so in the past, and I can tell you that it's a lot of fun (if you like talking politics) and it's more educational than anything schools can teach you. It's been my experience that those of Middle Eastern heritage here (many of whom are Chaldean, not just Muslims) love to talk politics. They love to educate those who are ignorant of their culture. But you cannot educate someone who is afraid to speak their mind. If someone thinks Arabs = Terrorists, that's definitely offensive, at least to me. If he's afraid to say it, how is he gonig to learn otherwise?
[/b]

Noone should be afraid to speak his mind but I still dont understand how insulting can be considered as speaking of mind. Intellectual arrogance may be a cool thing in Western world, its not well recieved here.

Once more violance is not the answer, and the ones who are doing this in the name of Islam are committing sins. Its not the first time ppl sin claiming they act in the name of Allah, it wont be the last.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 10 2006, 10:19 AM) [snapback]42223[/snapback][/center]

And as I mentioned, no not all Arabs are Muslim. Chaldeans are Christian, usually from Iraq.
[/b]

If tou remember Tarik Aziz he was christian, Iraq's old minister of foreign affairs. There are christian minorities in Turkey,Egypt, Syria and Iraq mostly. Lebanon has quite a lot of christians.

 

[reek]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hakan @ Feb 9 2006, 07:23 PM) [snapback]42224[/snapback][/center]

Noone should be afraid to speak his mind but I still dont understand how insulting can be considered as speaking of mind. [/b]

Because what is insulting is so subjective. What insults one may not insult another. So in practical terms, how can you legislate that? How can you say that some insults are illegal and others are not? How do you define an insult?

 

[Durryynn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 9 2006, 04:30 PM) [snapback]42228[/snapback][/center]

Because what is insulting is so subjective. What insults one may not insult another. So in practical terms, how can you legislate that? How can you say that some insults are illegal and others are not? How do you define an insult?
[/b]

tehee well thats easy when reek says so roflmao! or when someone says cyber lol

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Durryynn @ Feb 9 2006, 04:41 PM) [snapback]42237[/snapback][/center]

tehee well thats easy when reek says so roflmao! or when someone says cyber lol
[/b]

crap sorry had to say it. But on a seriouse note. I beielve an insult is when multiple people or a majority of a group agrees that it is an insult. But i can see where i may be wrong because an inult to one individual could be a true statement to another.

 

[Hakan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 10 2006, 10:30 AM) [snapback]42228[/snapback][/center]

Because what is insulting is so subjective. What insults one may not insult another. So in practical terms, how can you legislate that? How can you say that some insults are illegal and others are not? How do you define an insult?
[/b]

Hmmm maybe I cant find the right words, I tried to explain in one of my previous posts. Let me try to give u some examples and I will also give the words in turkish to see if i am using insult as a wrong word.

Tahkir, hakaret are the words i use to mean insult.

To have a claim is not insult. Like government is not doing its job, bla bla is a mistake, bla bla is a liar, bla bla is a thief, God doesnt exist. None of these are insults.

These words are only used when u want to insult someone and not to gain anything or make a point. Just for the sake of insulting. Hope I am more clear now.

 

[Fluffy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hakan @ Feb 10 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]42242[/snapback][/center]

Hmmm maybe I cant find the right words, I tried to explain in one of my previous posts. Let me try to give u some examples and I will also give the words in turkish to see if i am using insult as a wrong word.

Tahkir, hakaret are the words i use to mean insult.

To have a claim is not insult. Like government is not doing its job, bla bla is a mistake, bla bla is a liar, bla bla is a thief, God doesnt exist. None of these are insults.

These words are only used when u want to insult someone and not to gain anything or make a point. Just for the sake of insulting. Hope I am more clear now.
[/b]

Okay, so not so much "insults" as you are talking about Libel and Slander. Ahhhhhhhhh, now that makes more sense.

 

[Artica]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 9 2006, 03:51 PM) [snapback]42214[/snapback][/center]

No, the government has no power over the private newspaper to make them apologize. I don't know the law in Denmark though I assume it's similar to the US Constitution. In the US, it would in fact be illegal for the government to force me to apologize. And if the US is not responsible for my opinion, then an apology on my behalf is completely hollow. Denmark cannot apologize for the cartoonists because Denmark has no culpability whatsoever. It's exactly like Leeloo coming here and saying Reek is a bastard. I might be offended to no end and I might scream and yell and cause havoc, but why should the country of Denmark apologize to me?[/b]

I am perfectly aware of it. Government has no power over private property. However the concequences are still affecting them all as a whole. What would you do? Perhaps my wording is wrong, but I'm not stating it as a fact, but as a possibility. I myself, don't mess much on politics, so don't know much about laws. As I said before, I'm going with the carebear approach, trying to avoid deaths.

Again, as I said, what if they published a cartoon of a witch on a broom and that offends Wiccans? Should they force their private citizens to apologize for that too? Or just in a situation where there's violence? If so, aren't you then pandering to violence?[/b]

Bad example, the broom and witches, that is a traditional symbol for a witch. A witch of fiction. Wiccans know it. Are Wiccans mad every halloween?! No, they don't care. because is not used to depict them or their beliefs. It's used to depict a witch from fiction, as they are described in stories.

No, you're not, not in this argument.[/b]

Wrong! I am for Freedom of Speech, I am speaking my mind here, aren't I?!

Certainly there are gray areas. As we've said in the US there are limitations to freedom of speech, as I'm sure there are in Denmark. But this is not one of those gray areas. It is black and white - in the US, "Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech." It is plain as day in Denmark and the US that the government has no power over the press.[/b]

When did I said there should be a law? Again, I put it as a possibility. If government can't say or do anything, then where is this mess going to end up? Someone has to intervene at some point.

Where I live in fact has the largest Middle Eastern population outside of the Middle East. Unfortunately they are largely separated from the rest of the population (same as other ethnicities). To really respect each other, to really enjoy the multi-culturalism that we should enjoy, we must feel free to talk to each other. We can't be afraid.[/b]

Yeah I understand the fact that we shouldn't be afraid to express each other what we think or feel. However, what if someone tells you, 'hey what you are saying is an insult to me or my religion'. Will you go on your way ignoring their plea, or will you apologize for not knowing? Because, in this case, Muslims called or send mail in asking for an apology. Which the Danish paper never respond to those pleas.

 

[Durryynn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hakan @ Feb 9 2006, 04:45 PM) [snapback]42242[/snapback][/center]

Hmmm maybe I cant find the right words, I tried to explain in one of my previous posts. Let me try to give u some examples and I will also give the words in turkish to see if i am using insult as a wrong word.

Tahkir, hakaret are the words i use to mean insult.

To have a claim is not insult. Like government is not doing its job, bla bla is a mistake, bla bla is a liar, bla bla is a thief, God doesnt exist. None of these are insults.

These words are only used when u want to insult someone and not to gain anything or make a point. Just for the sake of insulting. Hope I am more clear now.
[/b]

ah yes that is true.

 

[Eldiablo8]

I think we should bomb more countries. It is population control.