To All Those Muslims Burning & Protesting That Cartoon

People need to think gang mentality and I don't mean just an ordinary group of people, think of it as an actualy gang like MS-13, Bloods, Crips, Folk Nation, whatever suits your fancy.

People join these gangs because they feel they need a place to belong and be around people like them for reasons such as socio economic factors, foreign land, or protection.

Lets look at the middle east. Generally poor countries where a majority of the people cannot read or write, let alone have jobs. They need to survive, provide for their families, and overall just find a reason to keep on living. Enter Islamic Extremism. They tell these ignorant (not in a bad way just not very knowledgable) easily influenced individuals that all of their problems are because of a different government or group of people that opress them and distort their way of life. When in actuality the extremists are opressing their own people beating, torturing, killing people that don't follow what they want in their beliefs. The promise the individual that if they rise up sacrafice themselves for the "cause" that they will be rewarded in the after life and their families will be compensated hansomely.

Well, his family needs to live and he can't provide for them, he's seen video of foreign military kill these so called "freedom fighters", so they must be evil. He sees on state controled tv, countries mocking his religion that he "now" believes so heavily in. He sees Imams preaching brimstone and fire and how all that do not support thier religion are infidels. Now he believes what he was told was true and off he goes to become patte.

A lot of extremism is because these people have nothing to do. No jobs, no money, no health care and they believe these morons that are so caught up their own agendas are correct.

If an infrastructure was built by these so called "goverments" that reduced poverty, increased economic wealth, equal rights, and provided people something else to do, then to shoot guns in the air, burn flags, and burn down buildings every other day, a lot of this crap would cease to exist.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Artica @ Feb 8 2006, 04:15 AM) [snapback]40922[/snapback][/center]
It all comes down to different beliefs. I'm being a carebear here, trying to avoid a conflict. Look at history, as merly said, lots of wars just because of religion. Can you see it my way, Allanon?! If this leads to war, and you knew the way to stop all this madness was a simple apology, what will you say then?
[/b]
I see what you're syaing, but I think you hope for something that isn't there. If war breaks out over this, it will be because of the unacceptable and yes even immature reaction of the Muslim populace.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allanon @ Feb 7 2006, 10:02 PM) [snapback]41089[/snapback][/center]
I see what you're syaing, but I think you hope for something that isn't there. If war breaks out over this, it will be because of the unacceptable and yes even immature reaction of the Muslim populace.
[/b]

I don't thinkit will come to war, it will soon die down.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merlyn @ Feb 8 2006, 07:14 AM) [snapback]41094[/snapback][/center]
I don't thinkit will come to war, it will soon die down.
[/b]
I don't think it will either, but if it does, look to the ones burning embassies.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Artica @ Feb 7 2006, 12:48 PM) [snapback]40906[/snapback][/center]
No I'm not American, but that's has nothing to do with the issue of avoiding a conflict, which is what I'm trying to say. [/b]
The reason I asked if you were American is because most Americans view Freedom of Expression as a quasi-religious belief, a birthright. There's an American saying, "I may not agree with your opinion, but I'll fight and die for your right to express it." Apologizing for expressing yourself is to me more offensive than any cartoon could ever be. If Danes don't express their opinion because Muslims might get violent, then Danes don't really have freedom of expression.

And as for dangerous people, there are no more dangerous people in the world than Americans - well, true Americans, ie, unlike Stavrose who would rather put his tail between his legs and run away than fight for what is right.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stavrose @ Feb 7 2006, 01:55 PM) [snapback]40948[/snapback][/center]
however, there still will be a western presence to protect Israel, as usual
[/b]
There is currently no western presence in the Middle East to protect Israel. Israel is able to defend herself.
 
History repeats itself over and over again... I really wonder if we learn anything at all?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merlyn @ Feb 8 2006, 07:59 AM) [snapback]41115[/snapback][/center]
History repeats itself over and over again... I really wonder if we learn anything at all?
[/b]

Nope, haven't in many millinea, and don't really see us changing any time soon.

That's why I support sex....for everyone.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fluffy @ Feb 7 2006, 11:00 PM) [snapback]41116[/snapback][/center]
Nope, haven't in many millinea, and don't really see us changing any time soon.

That's why I support sex....for everyone.
[/b]

well it does keep the species from dying out.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 7 2006, 01:51 PM) [snapback]41110[/snapback][/center]
The reason I asked if you were American is because most Americans view Freedom of Expression as a quasi-religious belief, a birthright. There's an American saying, "I may not agree with your opinion, but I'll fight and die for your right to express it." Apologizing for expressing yourself is to me more offensive than any cartoon could ever be. If Danes don't express their opinion because Muslims might get violent, then Danes don't really have freedom of expression.

And as for dangerous people, there are no more dangerous people in the world than Americans - well, true Americans, ie, unlike Stavrose who would rather put his tail between his legs and run away than fight for what is right.
[/b]
Freedom of Speech has consecuences, and this is one of them.

'There are many forms of righteousness as there are people.' - Rury Hoshino
 
I said 2-5 people would be dead within a week since the deaths of the 2 people in the embassys.

BBC news just reported 4 protesters have been killed, diddnt catch where but it definatly said 4 dead from protests over these cartoons.

6 dead already, the pen really is mighter than the sword
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(screamingfubar @ Feb 7 2006, 02:22 PM) [snapback]41133[/snapback][/center]
I said 2-5 people would be dead within a week since the deaths of the 2 people in the embassys.

BBC news just reported 4 protesters have been killed, diddnt catch where but it definatly said 4 dead from protests over these cartoons.

6 dead already, the pen really is mighter than the sword
[/b]
Who doubted the power of the press?! :mellow:
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(screamingfubar @ Feb 7 2006, 05:22 PM) [snapback]41133[/snapback][/center]
I said 2-5 people would be dead within a week since the deaths of the 2 people in the embassys.

BBC news just reported 4 protesters have been killed, diddnt catch where but it definatly said 4 dead from protests over these cartoons.

6 dead already, the pen really is mighter than the sword
[/b]

According to todays paper, some Afghanis tried to storm a US base in a protest apparently related to the cartoons. Four were killed by guards defending the base. I seriously doubt the cartoons were the real reason, it was just another convenient excuse to get worked up (and violent) against the non-Muslims (read infidels). Like Timi said on pg 3, they want the whole thing, there is no negotiating with them. However, to just eradicate them would be sinking to their level, which its doubtful that any other country or religion would do. Practically all other religions grew out of that phase after they learned it wouldn't work.

Edit for spelling
 
According to todays paper, some Afghanis tried to storm a US base in a protest apparently related to the cartoons. Four were killed by guards defending the base. I seriously doubt the cartoons were the real reason, it was just another convenient excuse to get worked up (and violent) against the non-Muslims (read infidels). Like Timi said on pg 3, they want the whole thing, there is no negotiating with them. However, to just eradicate them would be sinking to their level, which its doubtful that any other country or religion would do. Practically all other religions grew out of that phase after they learned it wouldn't work.

Edit for spelling
[/quote

It is like a wave, though the cartoons were run a while back but this wave of anger and violence just keeps growing and growing because violence creates more violence and it never ends.
I would point out the situation in the west bank and say that most of the people there don't really know why they fight any more but they know they hate and that hate carries on. They infect their children with their hate and it never ever ends. It's bad because it is never stopped.
This example of extremism is really quite astonishing at the moment and I am hoping that at some point it will stop, but I think in the next five or so years things will get worse before they get better. We all need to change our ways and how we think a bit.
 
Don't go to far out, look at wanderhome. The hate of people that don't even play anymore continues on and on.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Artica @ Feb 7 2006, 11:58 PM) [snapback]41174[/snapback][/center]
Don't go to far out, look at wanderhome. The hate of people that don't even play anymore continues on and on.
[/b]

humans are such paradoxical creatures on the one hand we show such compassion and on the other we are real evil SOBs
 
Also, a lot of this, which is obvious to anyone with some common sense, is fueled by the war in Iraq. I supported the war back when it started and I still support. Saddam had to go period, but I don't think it was the right place to start and I don't think it has been handled properly in the slightest way. This could have gone over smoother (and by smooth I don't mean perfectly without some conflict). Bush really screwed the pooch and didn't listen to his military advisors like Powell. Powell is one smart SOB and if I were president I would have been humping his leg askin, "WHAT NEXT WHAT NEXT?!?!"

A temporary government should have been formed and set to act before the war started that soon as Saddam was out of power they could step in. Screw legitamicy of the temp Government, thats why they are temporary and why elections are held later on to implement an actual government. The military should not have been disbanded, but retained, and granted I understand Bush's view of Europe wanting to get contracts to rebuild in the lines of, "Screw you, you didn't want this war, you're not gettin shit." But even he should realize that rebuilding a foreign country where there is no love for you is too daunting of a task, even for one nation.

Would there still be a resistance? Sure, no doubt about it. I mean to them, if you fought the Great Devil, even if it's some crack shot with a mortar, and run back to your home country, you're a hero. I don't think it would have had as much of an impact though because of the retention of the military. Keep in mind that most of these rebel groups are former military and they don't like Al Queda all that much, they just work with them to get us out of there and soon as we pull out, Al Queda will have worn out their welcome.

What should have been the route is Afghanistan (done) -> Iran -> Syria -> Iraq and then keep an evil on Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Yem, and Pakistan (which if Musharrif ever gets killed or thrown out of power...help us all).

Another aspect that doesn't help the fight against Exremists is the media. The media in no way give "fair and unbiased" coverage. They are political organizations that are funded by wealthy individuals that have political agendas. The media covers deaths of soldiers and posts numbers, reports the abuses by soldiers, how the military has a hard time facing the insurgency. But damn if one of their own doesn't get blown up, then it's an atrocity and we have to drench the public in their unfortunate experience. News flash....it happens to the soldiers every day and they are just used as political pawns to stimey the objectives in that country. This gives the terrorists and insurgents fuel to go off of and they use our own media to intimidate the pulbic. If the media would actually get off their asses and report the good things that do happen there, the building of infrastructure, women attending schools, whatever.....it would would help deflate terrorists/insurgents, but happy news doesn't get ratings and only supports the war. Blood, death, giving nut jobs like Cindy Sheehan attention when she deserves none, and anguish gets ratings and undermines the effort. I'm not saying cover up the atrocities, but when the news reports 2,000+ soldiers dead and the public has become so decensitized by it they say, "eh" give me a fucking break.

I talk to my girlfiend weekly who is serving over there and one day she told me, "You comming into this I wasn't sure if we are doing the right thing, but when I talk to Iraqi's and how happy they are that we aren't abbandoning them, even though it's dangerous, they know there is hope somewhere." She said she was on patrol one day and there was a little girl with her dad and her dad looking a little burly just stared her down, but his daughter ran over and hugged her leg and giggled at her. Her dad came over stopped and she wasn't sure what to expect, but he put out his hand to shake hers and said in broken english, "Thank you, you give us hope."

/diatribe off
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Timi @ Feb 7 2006, 04:00 PM) [snapback]41227[/snapback][/center]
Also, a lot of this, which is obvious to anyone with some common sense, is fueled by the war in Iraq. I supported the war back when it started and I still support. Saddam had to go period, but I don't think it was the right place to start and I don't think it has been handled properly in the slightest way. This could have gone over smoother (and by smooth I don't mean perfectly without some conflict). Bush really screwed the pooch and didn't listen to his military advisors like Powell. Powell is one smart SOB and if I were president I would have been humping his leg askin, "WHAT NEXT WHAT NEXT?!?!"

A temporary government should have been formed and set to act before the war started that soon as Saddam was out of power they could step in. Screw legitamicy of the temp Government, thats why they are temporary and why elections are held later on to implement an actual government. The military should not have been disbanded, but retained, and granted I understand Bush's view of Europe wanting to get contracts to rebuild in the lines of, "Screw you, you didn't want this war, you're not gettin shit." But even he should realize that rebuilding a foreign country where there is no love for you is too daunting of a task, even for one nation.

Would there still be a resistance? Sure, no doubt about it. I mean to them, if you fought the Great Devil, even if it's some crack shot with a mortar, and run back to your home country, you're a hero. I don't think it would have had as much of an impact though because of the retention of the military. Keep in mind that most of these rebel groups are former military and they don't like Al Queda all that much, they just work with them to get us out of there and soon as we pull out, Al Queda will have worn out their welcome.

What should have been the route is Afghanistan (done) -> Iran -> Syria -> Iraq and then keep an evil on Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Yem, and Pakistan (which if Musharrif ever gets killed or thrown out of power...help us all).

Another aspect that doesn't help the fight against Exremists is the media. The media in no way give "fair and unbiased" coverage. They are political organizations that are funded by wealthy individuals that have political agendas. The media covers deaths of soldiers and posts numbers, reports the abuses by soldiers, how the military has a hard time facing the insurgency. But damn if one of their own doesn't get blown up, then it's an atrocity and we have to drench the public in their unfortunate experience. News flash....it happens to the soldiers every day and they are just used as political pawns to stimey the objectives in that country. This gives the terrorists and insurgents fuel to go off of and they use our own media to intimidate the pulbic. If the media would actually get off their asses and report the good things that do happen there, the building of infrastructure, women attending schools, whatever.....it would would help deflate terrorists/insurgents, but happy news doesn't get ratings and only supports the war. Blood, death, giving nut jobs like Cindy Sheehan attention when she deserves none, and anguish gets ratings and undermines the effort. I'm not saying cover up the atrocities, but when the news reports 2,000+ soldiers dead and the public has become so decensitized by it they say, "eh" give me a fucking break.

I talk to my girlfiend weekly who is serving over there and one day she told me, "You comming into this I wasn't sure if we are doing the right thing, but when I talk to Iraqi's and how happy they are that we aren't abbandoning them, even though it's dangerous, they know there is hope somewhere." She said she was on patrol one day and there was a little girl with her dad and her dad looking a little burly just stared her down, but his daughter ran over and hugged her leg and giggled at her. Her dad came over stopped and she wasn't sure what to expect, but he put out his hand to shake hers and said in broken english, "Thank you, you give us hope."

/diatribe off
[/b]
LMAO
 
in cases like these I really don't understand carebears...
they WANT their fucking war, so why not finally blow em out of space?
Diplomacy really won't work, they don't want it...

they want war...
they even infiltrate us, use us, and then boom...

look at one of the bombers of London 7/7/2005...
got money from government to study (think was 30K pounds. something about 45K USD I assume)
did his studies here, and then blew a tube up...

If there wasn't any delay that fucking day at home at my place for 1 hour, I probably wouldn't be sitting here anymore, because that was exactly my route one of those fuckers bombed up
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RSCIW @ Feb 8 2006, 12:33 PM) [snapback]41274[/snapback][/center]
in cases like these I really don't understand carebears...
they WANT their fucking war, so why not finally blow em out of space?
Diplomacy really won't work, they don't want it...

they want war...
they even infiltrate us, use us, and then boom...

look at one of the bombers of London 7/7/2005...
got money from government to study (think was 30K pounds. something about 45K USD I assume)
did his studies here, and then blew a tube up...

If there wasn't any delay that fucking day at home at my place for 1 hour, I probably wouldn't be sitting here anymore, because that was exactly my route one of those fuckers bombed up
[/b]

Saddly theres sattelite groups every where in world. Right here in the US the planning of one major attack on the US (cant say what for obvious reasons) was on my patrol route. It's still an Islamic "philanthropy", but we would watch it like a hawk, jotting down license plates of cars parked outside of it noting anyone that walked in.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad have groups set in the US doing fund raising and training in which they send recruits back to Palestine for attacks. Some of those known locations we would just walk right into and scare the living bejesus out of....

Why don't we take them out you ask? Groups like the ACLU and others that believe that protecting the US against attacks is wrong to the funneling of illegal funds, which are tax evaded, and used to kill innocent people with.
 
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