To All Those Muslims Burning & Protesting That Cartoon

[Quirk]

this is the 2nd time I agree with everything REEK said......

 

[reek]

What was the first?

 

[Stavrose]

The thing is though, in Islamic religion, it is severe taboo to even make an IMAGE of mohammed. Mohammed's image is not to be drawn or made by anyone or anything. So its pretty much a violation of their core belief, no matter WHAT muslim group it is. So its actually comparable in severity

 

[reek]

*shrug* The Last Temptation of Christ was a film considered blasphemous (definitely a violation of their core beliefs). There were widespread protests. They were peaceful. There may have been some arrests of the protestors, I don't know. I do know that Scorsese, the director of the film, did not have to go in hiding. Buildings didn't burn. Diplomats were not pulled. The government didn't intervene.

You're blaming the rape victim for the rape here. Who the fuck cares if someone satirized their religion? Protest it if you want, fine. Even boycott Danish products if you want. But recognize that there are people out there who have different beliefs than you, and they have just as much right as you to express those beliefs. They should not have to worry for their safety because you have forfeited your mind to religion.

You do not have any right to not be offended.

 

[Stavrose]

Who the fuck cares if someone satirized their religion?[/b]

And who the fuck cares if they burn flags and bomb an embassy? Seriously, it doesn't affect the U.S., so fuck it

 

[reek]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stavrose @ Feb 7 2006, 12:07 AM) [snapback]40686[/snapback][/center]

And who the fuck cares if they burn flags and bomb an embassy? Seriously, it doesn't affect the U.S., so fuck it
[/b]

Uh... what? Jesus dude, what's that got to do with satirical cartoons?

Now of course you could use flag burning, which is defacing a symbol, to compare to the current situation. So let's do that. Every American has seen an American flag burning in the Middle East. Do we Americans like it? Hell no. Do we actually hate it, detest it, loathe it? Sure. Do we riot or burn Arab embassies for it?

As for terrorist acts such as bombing an embassy, I have no idea what the hell you're trying to get at with that, so explain if you want a response.

 

[Stavrose]

Isn't making a political cartoon about something a religious figure, even though that religion forbids that figure to be made into any image, defacing a symbol?

 

[Ianril]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 6 2006, 10:39 PM) [snapback]40677[/snapback][/center]

What was the first?
[/b]

remember that time when you said that Ianril was the sexiest beast ever?? that's it.

 

[reek]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stavrose @ Feb 7 2006, 12:17 AM) [snapback]40691[/snapback][/center]

Isn't making a political cartoon about something a religious figure, even though that religion forbids that figure to be made into any image, defacing a symbol?
[/b]

Are you drunk? I just said that burning an American flag can be considered defacing a symbol, just as portraying Mohammed in a satirical cartoon can also be considered defacing a symbol.

The difference is you don't see Americans rioting in the streets and burning foreign embassies because we see American flags being burned.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ianril @ Feb 7 2006, 12:17 AM) [snapback]40692[/snapback][/center]

remember that time when you said that Ianril was the sexiest beast ever?? that's it.
[/b]

Well yes you are much sexier than Kelsey Grammar .

Beast? Get it? Ha, shit that's funny!

 

[Ianril]

And somewhere a drum beats... ba-dum ching!

 

[Stavrose]

misread your post. so yeah, we don't do much cause they can burn all the flags they want, as long as we get their oil and continue to police them by invading when we please

 

[lpb8733]

Except Muslims tend to believe that if you don't agree with them, then you're a fair target to death squads/assassins/bombers. And they have no concept of collateral damage or avoid the innocent. That's why there was no major Muslim outcry after the list of events earlier in this thread. We, as non-Muslims, are all infidels to them, and as such have a less-than-human standing. I may not agree with other religions, but it is not my or my religion's right to go out and try to destroy them, or their way of life if we think they may be wrong. More killings and wars have been done in the name of religion than any other reason, and Islamic cultures seem to be more dedicated to this sort of thing than any of the others.

As for the defacing a symbol, as stated earlier, they burn our flag all the time and nothing really happens to them. Apparently they have a serious problem with the shoe being on the other foot for a while, again, probably relating to our status as infidels.

 

[reek]

Good quote a few years ago in the New York Times:

"As their ancient, deeply civilized culture of love, art and philosophical reflection is hijacked by paranoiacs, racists, liars, male supremacists, tyrants, fanatics and violence junkies, why are they not screaming?"
...Salman Rushdie.

 

[Merlyn]

I think that the riots are not just because of the cartoons but that the cartoons were a trigger for and anger and a hatred that goes a lot deeper.

I personally think that fundimentalism / extremism of any sort is crazy. People seem to take their beliefs and turn them into some whacked out holy crusade. in the medieval times it was the Christians, now it's the other side. and it never seems to end. I don't really get it actually this desperate need to be right.

I understand belief and faith but only to a point after that we as humans need to take responsabilty for us ourselves. We cause wars and kill. We destroy our planet with poisons and we decide each and every day how we veiw the world and our neighbours. We get up and make these choices.
Do I look at this cartoon and shrug it off, as stupid westerners who don't understand or do I go grab my gun and rampage because I am so full of rage i have no idea where to stop. It is a choice.

These cartoons and this rage are just symptoms of a much larger issue that never seems to resolve itself. And it seems to me to be fairly typical, the swell of reaction. Friedrich Nietzsche once wrote that' Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. ' meaning that violence and rioting tends to be infectious...

I wonder sometimes if people in general just have this weird deep seated need to go mad ....


There is so much hate and anger in this world right now. Be nice if people would calm down and see the larger picture.

 

[Allanon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merlyn @ Feb 7 2006, 05:26 PM) [snapback]40711[/snapback][/center]

Be nice if people would calm down and see the larger picture.
[/b]

Indeed it would be nice, and call me a pessimist, but don't expect that from the Islamic world any time soon. As stated previously, in the religion of Islam anyone who is not a Muslim is an infidel. And as such they must be either converted, subjugated, or eradicated. This is their belief, and it is the true reason behind the violence they deliver.

 

[Stavrose]

The only time the Muslim world will end the violence is the day Westerners leave the middle east. this was a promise they made to the world from their betrayal after the Lawrence of Arabia days. I don't blame them

 

[Artica]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 6 2006, 08:16 PM) [snapback]40672[/snapback][/center]

Ack! No government should ever "shush" a newspaper at any time.

Artica, are you American? Don't take that as an insult or anything, I'm just wondering. We Americans tend to view Freedom of Expression as an almost religious, fundamental birthright. It would be unusual to see an American argue otherwise.
[/b]

No I'm not American, but that's has nothing to do with the issue of avoiding a conflict, which is what I'm trying to say. Muslims are dangerous people. Put them all together under a single flag, and you'll have something you don't want. In this case, their flag is their religion. Many wars have sprung in the past because of religion.
Just an Apology to the Muslim people would do. That's it. And they would have avoided all this riots and deaths and what not.
And Reek, this is my opinion. Is freedom of speech notthing to do with being American, Mexican, Martian, Jovian, whatever. I'm just against it.

 

[Allanon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stavrose @ Feb 8 2006, 03:20 AM) [snapback]40897[/snapback][/center]

The only time the Muslim world will end the violence is the day Westerners leave the middle east. this was a promise they made to the world from their betrayal after the Lawrence of Arabia days. I don't blame them
[/b]

C'mon Stav, you're smart enough to know that's not true. Iran's prez said that Israel needed to be "wiped from the face of the earth." refer to their definition and tolerence of "infidels".

 

[Artica]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 6 2006, 08:54 PM) [snapback]40684[/snapback][/center]

*shrug* The Last Temptation of Christ was a film considered blasphemous (definitely a violation of their core beliefs). There were widespread protests. They were peaceful. There may have been some arrests of the protestors, I don't know. I do know that Scorsese, the director of the film, did not have to go in hiding. Buildings didn't burn. Diplomats were not pulled. The government didn't intervene.

You're blaming the rape victim for the rape here. Who the fuck cares if someone satirized their religion? Protest it if you want, fine. Even boycott Danish products if you want. But recognize that there are people out there who have different beliefs than you, and they have just as much right as you to express those beliefs. They should not have to worry for their safety because you have forfeited your mind to religion.

You do not have any right to not be offended.
[/b]

Also you have to take into consideration their core religion. They don't fear death, and will do anything to protect their beliefs. Christians are not that way, they fear death as part of their beliefs and always try to fix matters in the most civic way, just as Christ did in his time.

 

[Allanon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Artica @ Feb 8 2006, 03:48 AM) [snapback]40906[/snapback][/center]

No I'm not American, but that's has nothing to do with the issue of avoiding a conflict, which is what I'm trying to say. Muslims are dangerous people. Put them all together under a single flag, and you'll have something you don't want. In this case, their flag is their religion. Many wars have sprung in the past because of religion.
Just an Apology to the Muslim people would do. That's it. And they would have avoided all this riots and deaths and what not.
And Reek, this is my opinion. Is freedom of speech notthing to do with being American, Mexican, Martian, Jovian, whatever. I'm just against it.
[/b]

Being offended by something is absolutely no excuse to engage in the violence, burning, etc. that they are doing. "Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's 'understanding' "

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Artica @ Feb 8 2006, 03:52 AM) [snapback]40909[/snapback][/center]

Also you have to take into consideration their core religion. They don't fear death, and will do anything to protect their beliefs. Christians are not that way, they fear death as part of their beliefs and always try to fix matters in the most civic way, just as Christ did in his time.
[/b]

Clarification: Christians do not fear death. The difference comes in that Muslims think being a suicide bomber and killing infidels will get them a free ride to heaven and their 7 perfect virgins.