To All Those Muslims Burning & Protesting That Cartoon
- Thread starter Eldiablo8
- Start date
reek
New member
So Hakan, let's drop the personal stuff and have a real discussion here.
You've praised the United States and its Constitution. What about the First Amendment to the Constitution, ie, free speech?
Many Americans would claim this is the very foundation for our country, and that this law above all else is the primary reason for America being the great country it is today. Are you saying you think it should be changed?
You've praised the United States and its Constitution. What about the First Amendment to the Constitution, ie, free speech?
Many Americans would claim this is the very foundation for our country, and that this law above all else is the primary reason for America being the great country it is today. Are you saying you think it should be changed?
Hakan
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 9 2006, 02:41 PM) [snapback]41826[/snapback][/center]
No, its ok with your culture, for u guys words mean less than what it means to us. I am always amazed the way u guys can critisize your mistakes. Insults for me is an other thing but like I said its a different culture.
No, its ok with your culture, for u guys words mean less than what it means to us. I am always amazed the way u guys can critisize your mistakes. Insults for me is an other thing but like I said its a different culture.
reek
New member
But we have many Muslims in the United States, and of course there are many Muslims in the West in general, and it seems to be growing quite rapidly.
Do you think this is just something they deal with? Or is it a freedom they enjoy? Yes I know you can't really speak for Western Muslims, I'm just asking your opinion.
Do you think this is just something they deal with? Or is it a freedom they enjoy? Yes I know you can't really speak for Western Muslims, I'm just asking your opinion.
Hakan
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 9 2006, 03:19 PM) [snapback]41836[/snapback][/center]
Well first of all I dont live in US so I am not sure to what extreme freedom of speech means, If it includes insults, I will just tell u the main reaction of a muslim against a wrong, if he can correct it by his hand he has to, if he cant correct by his hand he has to warn, if he cant do both he has to curse it in his hearth.
Well first of all I dont live in US so I am not sure to what extreme freedom of speech means, If it includes insults, I will just tell u the main reaction of a muslim against a wrong, if he can correct it by his hand he has to, if he cant correct by his hand he has to warn, if he cant do both he has to curse it in his hearth.
RSCIW
Member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Timi @ Feb 8 2006, 08:25 PM) [snapback]41776[/snapback][/center]
Pictures as link, as dynamic pages in IMG tags not allowed...
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so much to English islamist in Britain...
I ask myself: If they do not like it here, even hate it, why the FUCK are they here?
If they hate it, they shall leave, back to the desert where they come from...
uh well, there's no microwaves in the desert, no fridge, no internet, no TV, no comforts at all, so, come to lovely Europe, live there, get everything, but hate it... FUCK THAT SHIT
If they want to live here, they HAVE to adapt, if not, get the fuck out!
If they don't fuck off, deport them! There's no place here for that eastern shit!
Abu Hamza has been jailed for inciting racial hatred and murder, though he "refused to recognise the court because it did not administer Islamic law"... Fuck sake, this is Europa!
If he wants to be judged by Islamic law, he shall fuck off to a country where he can be judged by Islamic law and not even come near to other countries!
Pictures as link, as dynamic pages in IMG tags not allowed...
pic 1
pic 2
pic 3
pic 4
pic 5
pic 6
pic 7
pic 8
so much to English islamist in Britain...
I ask myself: If they do not like it here, even hate it, why the FUCK are they here?
If they hate it, they shall leave, back to the desert where they come from...
uh well, there's no microwaves in the desert, no fridge, no internet, no TV, no comforts at all, so, come to lovely Europe, live there, get everything, but hate it... FUCK THAT SHIT
If they want to live here, they HAVE to adapt, if not, get the fuck out!
If they don't fuck off, deport them! There's no place here for that eastern shit!
Abu Hamza has been jailed for inciting racial hatred and murder, though he "refused to recognise the court because it did not administer Islamic law"... Fuck sake, this is Europa!
If he wants to be judged by Islamic law, he shall fuck off to a country where he can be judged by Islamic law and not even come near to other countries!
reek
New member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hakan @ Feb 9 2006, 12:27 AM) [snapback]41841[/snapback][/center]
As in any society, there are a lot of dumbasses out there. There are of course people in the US who will insult Muslims based on race and/or religion. These insults are not illegal. I guess I'd really need an American Muslim to comment on that. I know violence would not be a true Muslim's answer to those insults (or maybe it would, depending on circumstance), but I really wonder what an American Muslim would think of the apparent conflict between free speech and blasphemy. Perhaps tomorrow I'll go to a Middle Eastern restaurant and ask.
Hakan
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 9 2006, 03:43 PM) [snapback]41852[/snapback][/center]
Violance is never the answer for a muslim unless its in self-defense. I think Ya-sin verse gives your answer. In that verse probhet is ordered to preach to infidels, and then Allah says they are not going to listen, however your duty is to preach not to make them accept.
Its really a shame that most muslims dont follow the very basic orders of Quran.
And its good u asked me this to give me a chance to re-think what mistakes i did. I apologize. Since I am a human being I was wrong when I was angry, altho I didnt threaten you at that time when I was banned, I just said it to piss you off but there were times I really thought I could do bodily harm to you. Good thing i never had the chance.
Violance is never the answer for a muslim unless its in self-defense. I think Ya-sin verse gives your answer. In that verse probhet is ordered to preach to infidels, and then Allah says they are not going to listen, however your duty is to preach not to make them accept.
Its really a shame that most muslims dont follow the very basic orders of Quran.
And its good u asked me this to give me a chance to re-think what mistakes i did. I apologize. Since I am a human being I was wrong when I was angry, altho I didnt threaten you at that time when I was banned, I just said it to piss you off but there were times I really thought I could do bodily harm to you. Good thing i never had the chance.
reek
New member
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hakan @ Feb 9 2006, 12:54 AM) [snapback]41857[/snapback][/center]
If only more people could do the same. I understand how the cartoons may hurt people, I really do. I have a problem with religion in general, not just Islam, because so many people do not question their own beliefs, and their religion does not come from free thought, but from surrendering free thought.
To me, someone secure in their religion should look at an insult to that religion and see it for what it is. It may be hurtful, but why is it hurtful? Why is this person insulting my religion? Is there any truth to his belief? If he's wrong, how can I prove otherwise? If he holds an ignorant belief and cannot be convinced otherwise, then ok, I've done what I can and cannot get through to him, so let him wallow in his ignorance.
But I think it is vital that people feel free to have and express their thoughts, no matter how offensive. It is only through the free exchange of ideas that humans will progress.
Lol. I accept your apology and thank you. And I am perfectly willing to put our past where it belongs - in the past. To that end, I also apologize for anything hurtful I said to you. We don't have to like each other but we can at least give each other the respect every human deserves.And its good u asked me this to give me a chance to re-think what mistakes i did. I apologize. Since I am a human being I was wrong when I was angry, altho I didnt threaten you at that time when I was banned, I just said it to piss you off but there were times I really thought I could do bodily harm to you. Good thing i never had the chance.
[/b]
If only more people could do the same. I understand how the cartoons may hurt people, I really do. I have a problem with religion in general, not just Islam, because so many people do not question their own beliefs, and their religion does not come from free thought, but from surrendering free thought.
To me, someone secure in their religion should look at an insult to that religion and see it for what it is. It may be hurtful, but why is it hurtful? Why is this person insulting my religion? Is there any truth to his belief? If he's wrong, how can I prove otherwise? If he holds an ignorant belief and cannot be convinced otherwise, then ok, I've done what I can and cannot get through to him, so let him wallow in his ignorance.
But I think it is vital that people feel free to have and express their thoughts, no matter how offensive. It is only through the free exchange of ideas that humans will progress.
Ultimo
New member
Well said Reek. And it is good to see people getting along in our community of Wanderhome in the end. A lot of us may have had problems with each other in game but we have to realize there is a real life person at the other side of the keyboard no matter what their toons do in game. I respect both you and Hakan for your intelligence and your accomplishments.
Hakan
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 9 2006, 04:24 PM) [snapback]41862[/snapback][/center]
Btw i dont like conspiracy theories but this may be one, remember 'Satanic verses' by Salman Rushdi? Iran at that time put a bounty on his head, its kinda too convenient about the timing especially when the incident happened 6 months ago and now its getting widely spread while Iran has this atomic energy issues.
There is this princible in islam, 'innemel amelu binniyet' means actions are weighed according to intentons. I also remember that there was a grave insult to probhet, infidels accused his wife being unfaithful. It is in Quran but I forgot how the thing happened, I will check it and see what is said about it.
I still dont see any logic about insulting someone as an expression of free speech tho.Claiming one's belief or religion isnt right is not an insult, claiming Probhet was a liar is not an insult. If someone is just making insults to mock someone hes not trying to enter into a debate nor hes trying to prove some point. Its just an insult. I fail to see how it promotes any kind of progression.
Btw i dont like conspiracy theories but this may be one, remember 'Satanic verses' by Salman Rushdi? Iran at that time put a bounty on his head, its kinda too convenient about the timing especially when the incident happened 6 months ago and now its getting widely spread while Iran has this atomic energy issues.
There is this princible in islam, 'innemel amelu binniyet' means actions are weighed according to intentons. I also remember that there was a grave insult to probhet, infidels accused his wife being unfaithful. It is in Quran but I forgot how the thing happened, I will check it and see what is said about it.
I still dont see any logic about insulting someone as an expression of free speech tho.Claiming one's belief or religion isnt right is not an insult, claiming Probhet was a liar is not an insult. If someone is just making insults to mock someone hes not trying to enter into a debate nor hes trying to prove some point. Its just an insult. I fail to see how it promotes any kind of progression.
Merlyn
Thrawn's pretty pretty play thing
I must admit that I am having a hard time balancing the issue of freedom of the press / speach with being respectful of other peoples and other cultures.
I don't understand the need to provoke in such a negative way but I also do not reallyunderstandthe need to react with so much violence.
CBC radio has run several interviews and series of discussions about this issue and it it is very divisive. There were muslins interviewed who were insulted but accepted the reasons for printing the cartroons and others more extreeme. But it also seems from many of the interviews I have been listening to that this is the tip of a very large iceberg and a part of a much larger issue that no one seems to be able to verbalise in a constructive manner.
I find the whole concept of religion very odd to be honest. this is not tosay that I personally do not have belief far from it, but organised religion has some seriously strange issues.
I don't understand the need to provoke in such a negative way but I also do not reallyunderstandthe need to react with so much violence.
CBC radio has run several interviews and series of discussions about this issue and it it is very divisive. There were muslins interviewed who were insulted but accepted the reasons for printing the cartroons and others more extreeme. But it also seems from many of the interviews I have been listening to that this is the tip of a very large iceberg and a part of a much larger issue that no one seems to be able to verbalise in a constructive manner.
I find the whole concept of religion very odd to be honest. this is not tosay that I personally do not have belief far from it, but organised religion has some seriously strange issues.
I think we should have a pay per view fight. Bush vs Bin laden then Rumsfield vs Hussein. I think wars would be much simplier than. But then again all 4 of them are too much of pussies to fight for themselves.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merlyn @ Feb 9 2006, 06:59 AM) [snapback]41895[/snapback][/center]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merlyn @ Feb 9 2006, 06:59 AM) [snapback]41895[/snapback][/center]
you keep talking like that and God will smite thee!!!