What kind of PVP would the perfect MMO have?

What kind of PVP would the perfect MMO have?

  • All PVP all the time no matter what; can jump anybody of any faction even if they hate PVP

    Votes: 12 27.9%
  • Faction System - Can attack those of an enemy faction at any time; but neutrals are safe

    Votes: 18 41.9%
  • Covert/Overt system - Can only be attacked if you are set to overt like in SWG

    Votes: 11 25.6%
  • Arranged matchups in an arena or something - no random jumping of anyone in regular areas

    Votes: 2 4.7%
  • No PVP at all

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    43
Well I am not wrong in general. Generalisation doesnt mean there can not be any exceptions.:p

Again seeing them more vocal doesnt prove I am wrong, it just shows the behaviour of player types. To see the results check the history of MMOs and you will see that there are loads of evidences which proves my points. I have seen many carebears got educated :D by my types but never seen the other way also just look at that stupid TCS thread on flame boards or check the official forums, this kind of carebear games also allows retards to act like that, rest assured in a free for all game where there are serious consequences to actions, those kind of idiocity would be rare since players can punish them in game.
QFE... and this has been proven
 
I think Hakan described it perfectly. A carebear system is just like a single player game with chat. They want to be able to play the game at their own leisure with no real danger at all, because god forbid someone kills them and ruins their experience. But they fail to realize that the fact that we can't kill them is ruining our experience. So why can't the 2 play styles coexist?

And I know the psychos that really want to get rid of PVP entirely. I remember when I went back to the game for a couple weeks when Ekibe was trying to do away with that new PVP zone just because there was a little shred of content that required PVP and she didn't like that. But what is so wrong with forcing PVP; is it so horrible?
 
Hakan, you may want to check out Warhammer Online. Supposedly they are catering to PVPers:

"Right from the get-go, you're going to be able to participate in PVP. It's not about killing rats and killing spiders. It's about going out and - if I'm an orc - killing dwarves, right from the get-go."

While most WOW endgamers spend their time in 5 man dungeons and on PVE raids, Warhammer funnels players toward its Dark age of Camelot -spun PVP territorial struggles. And before WOW players cry, "But what about battlegrounds and arenas!?", here PVP is woven into the fabric rather than embroidered afterwards.
 
I voted PvP all the time. However, I should add that alot of things would need to change to make it ideal.

For instance, you don't know everyone's name IRL just because you see them. (ex. you see a random person on a street corner you've never seen in your life "Hey, look, it's Steve Jacobi!") That means names shouldn't just be floating above everyone's heads. If you know them, then they could, but otherwise, they'd be unknown until you could get a positive I.D.

Also, in real life people can use disguises etc. Rebels would simply not be identifiable until they made an attack. And Imperials would only be identifiable when they were in uniform. (There would be exceptions, but those should be the basic rules.)

Where am I going with this? I'll tell you. PvP would be open to everyone, but if you haven't identified your target then you are risking killing an innocent civilian or one of your own people. You may even be killing someone in a "gang" of sorts whose friends may come back for you later. As IRL, you probably won't take that risk unless you know what you're doing.

That means that a large part of an effective PvP system would involve means to identify other individuals or even groups - sometimes visually (faction-specific armor) and sometimes through other means (like if players could take "pictures" of other known characters - say you see a bounty on the boards and could identify that person upon getting in close enough proximity for 24 hours or something).

That's my idea for now anyway.

EDIT: I also felt like adding this...

"Photos" or other means of identifying people would become outdated if the person were to see an Image Designer or otherwise drastically change their appearance. Masks could cover identity, but make people suspicious of you (masked person entering a player city, for instance, may be asked to leave?)

It could work, and would also make Image Designer a lot more useful to gameplay.
 
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Hakan, you may want to check out Warhammer Online. Supposedly they are catering to PVPers:

Yea its one of the anticipated games by PvPers but only PvP doesnt hold my interest altho its a must.

What I want from a game is far more than only PvP, i want good game play, diversity, goals, reasonable reward/loss, freedom for player driven content, good class/profession setup whereas you dont end up in cookie-cutter templates, a good economy and resource system where resources are related with PvP also. I also want room for social interaction, a game can only get richer by allowing different type of ppl to play. Was SWG answering those all ? No but I doubt i would find such a game, unfortunately altho u can find these aspects in different games, no game is incorporating all of them. :(
 
I liked the Covert/Overt system the best simply because it didn't split the servers up everyone was jumbled on to one server. Seperate PvP servers is something I don't like much at all. If the servers were split then things would have been dull in our community. The Covert/Overt system was also great because it wasn't really open PvP but if you got scanned you were attackable and if you saw another Overt you could jump them or help in a fight without having to Declare at a recruiter. Sure you would get a TEF but if you stayed outta a fight for a while you would again be Covert. It's just the system I liked the most simply because I hate being jumped in any game.
 
The Gtef system was the lamest system ever implemented in a MMO. You hate getting jumped but you have no problem to jump an other one while he cant attack you eh?
 
I went with the option of open pvp all the time, however there needs to be consequences to your actions.

For example: in Eve I am a pirate. I hunt and kill anyone I want to but on the flipside I lose my sec status pretty quick and with it my ability to go into high security areas where I can buy goods for about 1/10th the price I have to pay for them in a Low Security section. It is a trade-off for what I want to do. Now I have an alt in the game that I can use for making hauling runs with goods out to low-sec but I run the risk of loosing my ship to another pirate since he is a target (my alt) and by getting killed I lose the money I sunk in to my replacement parts. It is a huge trade-off but also exhilirating.

I agree with Hakan on this one though.........the carebears are good at wanting everything handed to them without risk and the game gets boring rather quickly.........and no Dueling is NOT PvP it is a duel.
 
The Gtef system was the lamest system ever implemented in a MMO. You hate getting jumped but you have no problem to jump an other one while he cant attack you eh?

Basicly yes. I don't lie about that. I really do hate getting jumped. :p That is why if ever I wanted to pvp I waited for overts and attacked them at their weakest moment. l'll break it down for ya for me the only way I can have fun while pvping is if I win playing within the set game mechanics. If I win by cheating it isn't fun but if I win being dirty etc. it is fun for me. I hate getting Pk'd. lol
 
Well GtEF wasnt a dirty trick it was straight lame. I can tell you this as I was the number one target of such lame attacks. I remember getting attacked by full groups with only 1 overt in it. It wasnt dirty, it was pretty lame.
 
I remember when I was killing rebs in Moenia and that DOA moron Nuggz refused to go overt; so he spent like 15 minutes begging people to group with him just so he could use GTEF against me to get dizzy knockdown as the first attack. Such a lame technique.
 
Without reading anyone else's posts, I think free-for-all with real consequences is the best. No MMORPG games that I know of have real consequences, just artificial constraints. Real consequences means that the "carebears" can have an intrinsic value to "society" such that anyone who kills them really becomes an "outlaw". Real consequences means that, for instance, you can't use the starports in SWG to escape from retaliation if you just wiped out the local constabulary.

The trouble with most FFA PvP is it does not pretend to model a real society but a megalomaniac fantasy centered around "old number one". That's fine if you are making a shooter fantasy game, but doesn't fit what players with social RPG prospects want to pay for. As soon as you have a society, there are implied rules for interacting with members of that society. If the society happens to be violent, there are rules for who you can and cannot do violence unto, and under what circumstances, without consequences. Modeled RPG societies should attempt to model the consequences, instead of just the constraints that the consequences are supposed to enforce.

I can think of two main reasons why the kind of FFA PvP I'm talking about has never really existed. First, the split between "carebear" and "FFA" is adequately managed by different rulesets, to a level sufficient to provide a market presence for both niches. Second, it's difficult and expensive to create a good RPG societal model with consequences for crime that is appealing enough to all players. What these two points mean when taken together is that any game that tried to create a "realistic" societal model might find itself without players, since its FFA and carebear contingents might each desert to games that better fulfill their respective fantasies.

Early SWG was actually a good step in the direction I'm talking about. It did not go far enough, because travel was much too easy, and some consequences needed to be more severe and widespread. For example, battles between partisans in cities should have met with overwhelming NPC responses, according to the current partisan alignment of the city. For another example, typical PvE actions like killing every yellow name in sight should have met with overwhelming NPC response. Faction should not have been something which was easily recovered when lost, just by killing an equivalent number of undesirables; SWG just followed other PvE games in this respect, when it should have invented its own rules.

The later "combatant" and "special forces" rules in SWG were kind of laughable to me, and contributed a lot toward dissolving my "suspension of disbelief" in that game's context, in spite of the fact that I played as a complete non-participant in the GCW. Unfortunately, I'm sure that better, more immersive, more consequential rules would have driven away many more players, both PvPers and PvEers. They were primarily interested in getting their shooting thrills without putting up with appropriate societal consequences.

I don't want to go on with more details, because I think you can all see what I mean.

Edit: That being said, I voted for total FFA, with the caveat that real consequences are needed, and NPC's should enforce those consequences. Faction-based is my second choice, mainly because factions are an easy way to keep from accidentally killing someone you don't want to kill, and not having to watch your back constantly. At the same time, the way faction is usually implemented is wimpy, and sucks worse than FFA without consequences. I only play PvE, because I'm just not up to the kind of work that's necessary to enjoy PvP as it's currently done. The poll was about PvP, so I'm taking it to mean what kind of PvP that I would consider playing.
 
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Well I'm not sure that an NPC punishment system would work. So what; if you kill some innocents than a bunch of level 3000000 cops swarm in and pwn your ass?

I kind of like the idea of what Darein was talking about with the anonymity (Not having names above your head so everyone knows who you are), combined with some kind of 'infamy' system. So if you commit enough crimes your infamy builds up and you begin to be flagged at starports or checkpoints, sending a signal to all the registered 'good guy' pvpers who can then hunt you down for a bounty.

There also has to be some kind of punishment so the criminal doesn't just get killed, laugh it off, and charge out of the cloner to kill again. Maybe there should be ranking that gets you special recognition and titles in the 'criminal faction' the more infamy you build up without getting caught, but it resets totally to 0 if you get killed. So with that you will never just see the good criminal pvpers randomly going around slaughtering everyone inside the cantinas. They will have to pick their targets carefully or they won't last long. Of course also getting a high rank will have tangible benefits like access to better equipment or skills or something so there's actually a benefit to it.
 
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i voted for overt/covert system.

Id like something where you could attack someone of any faction no matter what tho, such as a bounty hunter mission. Like it used to be in SWG. Gtefs and of course guild wars.

Guild wars should be forced upon any guild that declares themselves as a pvp guild whereas pve guilds could accept/decline.
 
They should make a pvp system where you can't log off after your playing cause thats like gay how you can get outta the game while theres pvpers looking to kill someone.

Also if you die you should be banned from the game for a week and have 5 emails a day sent to you saying "haha you suck at life".


Finally if your found to be a carebare your card details should be released to everyone so they can steal your money so you can't afford to play anymore.


Zomg total hardcore gaming.
 
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Well I'm not sure that an NPC punishment system would work. So what; if you kill some innocents than a bunch of level 3000000 cops swarm in and pwn your ass?

I kind of like the idea of what Darein was talking about with the anonymity (Not having names above your head so everyone knows who you are), combined with some kind of 'infamy' system. So if you commit enough crimes your infamy builds up and you begin to be flagged at starports or checkpoints, sending a signal to all the registered 'good guy' pvpers who can then hunt you down for a bounty.

There also has to be some kind of punishment so the criminal doesn't just get killed, laugh it off, and charge out of the cloner to kill again. Maybe there should be ranking that gets you special recognition and titles in the 'criminal faction' the more infamy you build up without getting caught, but it resets totally to 0 if you get killed. So with that you will never just see the good criminal pvpers randomly going around slaughtering everyone inside the cantinas. They will have to pick their targets carefully or they won't last long. Of course also getting a high rank will have tangible benefits like access to better equipment or skills or something so there's actually a benefit to it.

Actually what you suggest is closer to what I had in mind than level 3000000000000 cops. Someone who is bad enough should be able to handle the cops, but the cops should provide a challenge. A good player posse is not always around, and some challenge should be presented those who choose to play when (and where) player posses are unlikely to be present.

I like the idea of infamy, and a posse getting alerted whenever a sufficiently infamous character gets spotted in a populated area, for example by an NPC. Bad guys should be allowed to be relatively safe from observation in unpopulated areas. This should give bad guys a reason for hiding in the hills on planets, and in asteroid belts and other annoying places in space.

I like the notion of bandit raids on new player and non-combatant areas, and a small number of defenders with appropriate skills should be able to get NPC help to defend the area. Think base-raid mechanics in SWG, but with new players and noncombatant players (eg. crafters) being defended, and player stuff being some of the loot the bandits are after. My ideas on mechanics are intended to support this kind of scenario.

I think we are on the same page when it comes to the notion that being a successful bad guy should not be that easy. I don't like the "naked ganker" syndrome in some games, and what I proposed is mainly intended to disrupt that kind of scenario. Naked gankers should be fodder for righteous characters and disposable tools for capable criminals.
 
Yeah I think basically that is the most important thing, that 'ganking' in the right way rewards you in some way with better skills or something. So sure, you can be one of those idiots that runs into the Coronet cantina, kills a random dancer, and yells "mwuahahaa pwned newb!!!111!!" before being dropped by 15 enforcers, but that playstyle punishes you with less skills so you'll suck at the game and no one wants that. On the other hand, the badass gankers who stay in the shadows and rarely get caught will be rewarded with a better template.

Also there should be different areas where criminal activity is easier to get away with. So for instance, at a hive of scum and villany like Mos Eisley you can get away with a lot more than you could in Coronet. That seems like a really engrossing game exprience to me even for people who never PVP. If you want to be safe you stay on the civilized planets, and maybe venture out to the badlands of Tatooine if you want a real sense of danger.
 
You cant have any type of PvP system which rewards PvP for the betterment of toons be it equipment or template bonuses unless there are very harsh penalties and even so its not easy. The golden rule of MMOs is if a system can be exploited it will be exploited.

Ppl even cheat for stupid titles which actually have no effect and in the long run it even frustrates the ones who cheat. Any kind of grind for PvP rewards is open to exploiting thus should be avoided. The answer to this problems is to create a game which is close to real life mechanics but since its a game and you want excitement the backround should not be based of modern age of laf enforcement but rather middle ages if you get what i mean.
 
You cant have any type of PvP system which rewards PvP for the betterment of toons be it equipment or template bonuses unless there are very harsh penalties and even so its not easy. The golden rule of MMOs is if a system can be exploited it will be exploited.

Ppl even cheat for stupid titles which actually have no effect and in the long run it even frustrates the ones who cheat. Any kind of grind for PvP rewards is open to exploiting thus should be avoided. The answer to this problems is to create a game which is close to real life mechanics but since its a game and you want excitement the backround should not be based of modern age of laf enforcement but rather middle ages if you get what i mean.
Well I dunno. I still think it could work.

How about this for an example: penalty depends on where you commit the crime. So for instance if you murder someone in heavily populated Coronet then a bounty is put on you available for every 'good guy' player in the server and if you get caught you lose approximately an entire weeks worth of hard PVP grinding. If you kill in Mos Eisley, well that City is more lawless so punishment is not so bad; if caught you lose like 2 days worth of grinding. And if you kill out in the badlands where there is no law then your punishment could only be like an hour of grinding if you get killed.

Also this only applies to killing of innocents. Normal killing in the faction wars doesn't penalize you.
 
i'd like to see a 3 party pvp system ...basicly the third party is safe from combat and can not fight anyone..unless they choice faction

would like to see a goal bsed system maybe with land exchange kinda like how guild wars is set up

pvp only geared earnd through pvp as well as overt faction raid content with it's own rewards...you pick a path you get more outa it

would like to see a system that would have rewards for better playing but zero titles or rankings of any kind...rankings seem to make people hide once they have good titles...i hate games where people pvp and after a group is beaten down enough they have no choice but to quit because they are deleveled have lost their titles and are beaten,...i would like it more open so people could fight all night die a 100 times and it not hurt too bad..that would keep people in combat....instead of some games where when a nub sucks he dares not try again because he has lost...maybe more of a reward on win vs a win/lose system (ramble)

contested content....lots of it big raid, group duo, single

true guild advancement with worth while rewards

rare loot swg was awesome for that "the business" nuff said

guild halls, bases, camps ---places to hold down ...maybe portable camps from which you could get close to enemy and still have a small stronghold to fall back to

guild wars battles arenas

most important--non retarded designers---no shitty servers
 
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