USS Liberty
- Thread starter Hakan
- Start date
Hakan
.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merlyn @ Feb 10 2006, 09:34 PM) [snapback]42495[/snapback][/center]
U.S.S. Liberty is an american recon vessel which was attacked by Israeli aircraft and torpedo gunboats in 1967 during 6 days war, kiling 34 american navy personnel and wounding over hundred. To this day the inquiry report is not announced. Israel claimed it was an accident, while countless American officials claimed it was deliberate including secretary of state and high ranked admirals.
Since we started to talk about muslim-west relations and terror, I have decided to give information regarding region's history and how U.S tied herself with Israel.
U.S.S. Liberty is a fine example as it clearly shows what kind of lies U.S. governments can tell even in expense of their own countrymen to support Israel.
Since the only solution to cure terrorism is justice and fairness, first Americans need to realize where they are making mistakes and why they are becoming targets against terror.
For more detailed information you can refer to this link.
http://www.ussliberty.org/
U.S.S. Liberty is an american recon vessel which was attacked by Israeli aircraft and torpedo gunboats in 1967 during 6 days war, kiling 34 american navy personnel and wounding over hundred. To this day the inquiry report is not announced. Israel claimed it was an accident, while countless American officials claimed it was deliberate including secretary of state and high ranked admirals.
Since we started to talk about muslim-west relations and terror, I have decided to give information regarding region's history and how U.S tied herself with Israel.
U.S.S. Liberty is a fine example as it clearly shows what kind of lies U.S. governments can tell even in expense of their own countrymen to support Israel.
Since the only solution to cure terrorism is justice and fairness, first Americans need to realize where they are making mistakes and why they are becoming targets against terror.
For more detailed information you can refer to this link.
http://www.ussliberty.org/
djmtott
What's my name again?
How about the incident with the USS Saratoga?
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During the fall of 1992, the United States, Turkey, and several other NATO members participated in "Exercise Display Determination 1992," a combined forces naval exercise under the overall command of Admiral Jeremy Michael Boorda of the United States Navy. The forces of participating nations were assigned to either of two multinational teams. Vice Admiral T. Joseph Lopez of the United States Navy led the "Brown Forces," which included Saratoga. The opposing "Green Forces," including the Turkish destroyer Muavenet, were under the direct control of Admiral Kroon of the Netherlands.
During the "enhanced tactical" phase of the training exercises, the Brown Forces were to attempt an amphibious landing at Saros Bay, Turkey against the resistance offered by the Green Forces. Admiral Boorda ordered the units comprising each force to actively seek and "destroy" each other. Both task force commanders had full authority to engage the enemy when and where they deemed appropriate and to use all warfare assets at their disposal to achieve victory. Needless to say, all confrontations were intended to be simulated attacks.
On 1 October 1992 the Combat Direction Center Officer aboard Saratoga decided to launch a simulated attack on nearby opposition forces utilizing the Sea Sparrow missile system. After securing the approval of Saratoga's Commanding Officer and the Battle Group Commander, Rear Admiral Philip Dur, the Combat Direction Center Officer implemented the simulated assault plan. Without providing prior notice, officers on Saratoga woke the enlisted Sea Sparrow missile team and directed them to conduct the simulated attack. Certain members of the missile firing team were not told that the exercise was a drill, rather than an actual event.
As the drill progressed, the missile system operator used language to indicate he was preparing to fire a live missile, but due to the absence of standard terminology, the responsible officers failed to appreciate the significance of the terms used and the requests made. Specifically, the Target Acquisition System operator issued the command "arm and tune," terminology the console operators understood to require arming of the missiles in preparation for actual firing. The officers supervising the drill did not realize that "arm and tune" signified a live firing. As a result, shortly after midnight on the morning of 2 October, Saratoga fired two live Sea Sparrow missiles at Muavenet. The missiles struck Muavenet in the bridge, destroying it and the Combat Information Center, killing most of the Turkish ship's officers.
________________________________________
During the fall of 1992, the United States, Turkey, and several other NATO members participated in "Exercise Display Determination 1992," a combined forces naval exercise under the overall command of Admiral Jeremy Michael Boorda of the United States Navy. The forces of participating nations were assigned to either of two multinational teams. Vice Admiral T. Joseph Lopez of the United States Navy led the "Brown Forces," which included Saratoga. The opposing "Green Forces," including the Turkish destroyer Muavenet, were under the direct control of Admiral Kroon of the Netherlands.
During the "enhanced tactical" phase of the training exercises, the Brown Forces were to attempt an amphibious landing at Saros Bay, Turkey against the resistance offered by the Green Forces. Admiral Boorda ordered the units comprising each force to actively seek and "destroy" each other. Both task force commanders had full authority to engage the enemy when and where they deemed appropriate and to use all warfare assets at their disposal to achieve victory. Needless to say, all confrontations were intended to be simulated attacks.
On 1 October 1992 the Combat Direction Center Officer aboard Saratoga decided to launch a simulated attack on nearby opposition forces utilizing the Sea Sparrow missile system. After securing the approval of Saratoga's Commanding Officer and the Battle Group Commander, Rear Admiral Philip Dur, the Combat Direction Center Officer implemented the simulated assault plan. Without providing prior notice, officers on Saratoga woke the enlisted Sea Sparrow missile team and directed them to conduct the simulated attack. Certain members of the missile firing team were not told that the exercise was a drill, rather than an actual event.
As the drill progressed, the missile system operator used language to indicate he was preparing to fire a live missile, but due to the absence of standard terminology, the responsible officers failed to appreciate the significance of the terms used and the requests made. Specifically, the Target Acquisition System operator issued the command "arm and tune," terminology the console operators understood to require arming of the missiles in preparation for actual firing. The officers supervising the drill did not realize that "arm and tune" signified a live firing. As a result, shortly after midnight on the morning of 2 October, Saratoga fired two live Sea Sparrow missiles at Muavenet. The missiles struck Muavenet in the bridge, destroying it and the Combat Information Center, killing most of the Turkish ship's officers.
Hakan
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(djmtott @ Feb 10 2006, 09:53 PM) [snapback]42499[/snapback][/center]
Saratoga was accident, but you could do better. You could tell the story of Kocatepe where turkish planes sunk a turkish navy vessel during Cyprus invasion.
However both are not answer to my question neither answer to CIA director nor Secretary of State nor the machine gunning of torpedo boats at Liberty and her crew's still asking for an investigation. or this http://www.ussliberty.org/moorer3.htm
Saratoga was accident, but you could do better. You could tell the story of Kocatepe where turkish planes sunk a turkish navy vessel during Cyprus invasion.
However both are not answer to my question neither answer to CIA director nor Secretary of State nor the machine gunning of torpedo boats at Liberty and her crew's still asking for an investigation. or this http://www.ussliberty.org/moorer3.htm
Hakan
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hakan @ Feb 10 2006, 10:07 PM) [snapback]42503[/snapback][/center]
or this? http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ul-boston.html
or this? http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ul-boston.html
Hakan
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stavrose @ Feb 10 2006, 11:08 PM) [snapback]42515[/snapback][/center]
Shes a damn nice frigate, i remember to read one of her battles against a more powerful English frigate and defeating her for the first time in English history and the English vessel surrendered. I know its preserved as a museum still.
However our subject is not old US vessels, a bit more important. Our lesson is to learn to face the truth and reconsider what we are thaught to believe. I will bring more facts and show where the nature of problem is, to see or not, to admit it or not, to change your stance or not, thats not my problem.
I dunno, figured we were talking about old U.S. ships from history, thought i'd bring them up
[/b]
Shes a damn nice frigate, i remember to read one of her battles against a more powerful English frigate and defeating her for the first time in English history and the English vessel surrendered. I know its preserved as a museum still.
However our subject is not old US vessels, a bit more important. Our lesson is to learn to face the truth and reconsider what we are thaught to believe. I will bring more facts and show where the nature of problem is, to see or not, to admit it or not, to change your stance or not, thats not my problem.
Why would've Israel attack an american vessel ? Unless it was one of those trigger-happy, shoot-first-ask-questions-later officers who ordered it. There are tons of examples in the past conflicts were people were on edge and made terrible mistakes. Over half of US casualties in the persian gulf war in '91 were due to friendly fire. Back in 2003, around 50 coalition troops died to friendly fire, americans shooting down brits, brits killing their own, US killing their own etc.
reek
New member
The USS Liberty is a controversial event, no way around it. You can't just call it friendly fire and you also can't call it a deliberate attack. Unfortunately it's unlikely we'll ever know the truth on it.
But you are right, we should not trust things at face value, and we should always question.
However, Israel is a key partner to the United States and has proven to be one of, if not our strongest ally and closest to our beliefs in international affairs.
An excellent book on Israel/US relations is by an old professor of mine (may he rest in peace), AFK Organski, entitled, "The $36 Billion Bargain." In it, he disproves the notion of some mystical "Jewish lobby" controlling American politics, although suggesting that the claim to the existence of the Jewish lobby is a benefit to nearly everyone.
But you are right, we should not trust things at face value, and we should always question.
However, Israel is a key partner to the United States and has proven to be one of, if not our strongest ally and closest to our beliefs in international affairs.
An excellent book on Israel/US relations is by an old professor of mine (may he rest in peace), AFK Organski, entitled, "The $36 Billion Bargain." In it, he disproves the notion of some mystical "Jewish lobby" controlling American politics, although suggesting that the claim to the existence of the Jewish lobby is a benefit to nearly everyone.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(reek @ Feb 10 2006, 11:08 AM) [snapback]42919[/snapback][/center]
When a country is our allies we forgive alot of shit. Look at Iraq. we were cool with them gassing kurds and the iranians when iraq was our friend. Minute they pissed us off we then decide they are evil. US is a fair weather friend. Look, we support some of the most oppressive governments in the world who do the same thing as Hussein is. I support us being allies with Israel cause after all, you should have allies that share the same type of ideology.